INTERVIEWS

---

Cult Critic: The topic “Sports Memorabilia Industry” is quite niche, how confident were you in taking on this project and reaching an audience?

Michael: Early on I knew I always wanted to do something creative with the trading card and sports memorabilia industry; whether that be a film or a series or a book or a podcast… something. I grew tired of the traditional model of pitching films to investors and studios in hopes they give me a green light. And since I’m not really a “known” creator, it has always been an uphill battle. That being said, I financed the project entirely by myself. I used the money I made off my novels that I wrote and dipped into my savings and sacrificed as much as I could personally and professionally to make this happen. When you say “confident”, was I confident Hobby Hustle was/is going to make money? No. But I was confident that I knew how to approach this subject and put it in the right light. There’s not many out there, but I’ve seen other collecting docs, and while they are good in their own right, the realness of the hobby isn’t fully there. I wanted to three-fold this with the good and ugly of the industry. 

 
Cult Critic: Watching the film, I felt an intimate and personal touch. What kind of connection do you have to the world of sports memorabilia?

Michael: I’ve always collected trading cards and memorabilia. I did when I was a kid and I still do! My love for it I feel is simple. I don’t spend thousands of dollars. I collect things here and there that catch my eye. For instance, I’m a big Mookie Betts and Nolan Arenado fan. So when I see cards I don’t have I’ll buy them. I love Willie Mays and Don Mattingly. I try to find pieces like old lunch boxes or cards or posters. Before I dove into this documentary, I started to collect signed memorabilia (baseballs, hats, jerseys, cards, etc.). Little did I know it was hit or miss if they were actually real. If they were actually signed by the player I thought I was getting. Suddenly, I started diving into the research of fraud within the industry and my jaw dropped. This led to finding infamous investigations like Operation Foul Ball and Operation Stolen Base as well as many others. I knew I had to expand my documentary from just a love letter to a cautionary tale.

 
Cult Critic: What kind of message and conclusion would you want the audience to draw from your documentary?

Michael: At the end of the day, don’t lose that kid-like enthusiasm for the hobby, but stay cautious of what you buy and from who. There is a quote in the documentary where Cliff Panezich (mastermind behind Operation Stolen Base) says about the kids who collect: “Let them be oblivious.” That still sticks with me. He was saying that if the kids knew the seedy underbelly of the hobby that the love for it would die for them, and that it would be easier to just keep them in the dark. I have my own thoughts on that, but let that quote sit with you a bit and come to your own conclusions after watching this film.

 
Cult Critic: You are an inspiration for other indie filmmakers. What piece of advice would you like to pass on to your fellow independent creatives?

Michael: Don’t wait on others to make your projects happen. The best films are the ones that the filmmakers sacrificed to make happen. You can see the heart in them. In the end it all comes down to money, right? Maybe make those sacrifices yourself. Finance things yourself or reconstruct your vision to lower the budget so you can have something more doable. When I was younger, I never, NEVER wanted to sacrifice my vision. As I got older, I realized the most important thing to me was the story and just getting it out there was much more important than anything. Whether that be books or podcasts, or refiguring things to lower the budget of my story to make it more doable. Be open-minded. Be resourceful. Take risks… And don’t stop until you complete your project. With the traditional film market changing, filmmakers now have more of a chance than ever to not only get their stories made but to showcase to larger audiences.

 
Cult Critic: Being the sole in charge for a feature length documentary film is no easy feat, what hardships did you have to face along the journey of completing “Hobby Hustle” and how did you overcome them?

Michael: Again, it all comes down to money, right? I didn’t have a budget per se. I just spent along the way. Equipment, travel, hiring crews from other states, etc. It was all challenging, but I knew how I wanted things to flow and just rolled with the punches, while still keeping my end goals in mind. While I shot 95% of everything myself, I couldn’t have done this without the help of my crew and of the extremely talented cinematographers: TJ Penton, Hunter Jackson, Sebastian Barbaran and J.S. Phillips. The other challenging part was COVID. The project actually started back in 2019. Then when COVID hit the world, everything just stopped. I wasn’t able to shoot anything until 2022, so it was almost 2-3 years of start and stops.  
 

Cult Critic: Among the many figures in the sports memorabilia world, what about Luke Kooy’s, Karl Kissner’s and Cliff Panezich’s story specifically drew you in? How did you reach out to them?

Michael: I knew I wanted to showcase a handful of stories. And there were stories I shot that didn’t even make the final cut of the film. But the three stories I knew would completely showcase the industry the best were Luke Kooy, Karl Kissner and Cliff Panezich.

Luke was a kid who was introduced, as most of us are, to the hobby by his father. Like his father, Mike, he had an entrepreneurial mind. What drew me into Luke’s story was that he was a high riser in the online collecting community and even though he has a growing following he still was about his community. Something that gets overlooked in today’s world. We’re all in a hurry to leave what we know and leave our communities for what we believe is bigger and better. But Luke saw an opportunity to bring a hobby store to a tourist community. Now he’s expanding, and he’s not even 21 yet! 

What drew me into Karl Kissner and the Black Swamp Find was him as a person. I loved the history of his family. I could talk to Karl for hours and hours. The man is incredibly interesting and humble. I knew his story would captivate and be a favorite because Karl was never in the industry. He and his family are salt of the earth type of people. He’s a local business owner who loves his community and loves his family. He had no connection to the hobby until he found what he found. Very unsuspecting. He and his family fell backwards into one of the biggest sports collecting finds in history.

Cliff was one of the first people I contacted early on while putting together this doc. At the time he was in prison, so I had to communicate with him with phone calls, JPay and through his mother Rose Panezich. I first came to know about Cliff and what he did from a Sports Illustrated article published back in 2016 from writer Luke Winn. After reading it I knew I wanted to get Cliff’s side of things. The article was very ‘good guy beats bad guy’ heavy, and I wanted to get Cliff’s side of the story. Mind you, I had to be factual and still tell the story as a whole, so I spoke with FBI agent Tony Sano (who passed away while filming) and his partner in Operation Stolen Base Detective Brian McGivern as well as other legal figureheads. My approach on Cliff’s story in the doc was I wanted to show his rise and fall and redemption. At the end, it’s up to the audience if they think he is redeemed or not. Cliff was, and still is, a hard character to like. But while he did do the crime and his hate for how law enforcement handled his case is clear, you hope he finds peace in his life. 

 
Cult Critic: Looking back at the project, are there any aspects of the film that you wish you had done a bit differently?

Michael: Probably not filming so much content. I think I was always worried that I wouldn’t have enough content to fill out what was planned in the beginning as an hour and a half film. Boy, was I wrong. In the end I had too much footage and had to cut out a few side stories which bummed me out. The film itself is now 2.5 hours. I’ll eventually put what I cut out on my website or somewhere, but not sure how I want to package it up yet. Stay tuned!

 
Cult Critic: Can you share any technical trivia or behind the scenes insights about the filmmaking process?

Michael: In the beginning I had to start from scratch. I had zero equipment to film this. So, I just started buying and collecting equipment and learning how to use everything from memory on other shoots. Once I got the hang of things I was in the zone and didn’t want to stop. I also bought a drone. I never flew one before, so that was pretty fun learning how and getting some dope aerial shots.

I can let you in on some personal behind the scenes stuff. Off the bat, the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Corrections were incredibly hard to work with. To get interviews with Cliff took an act of God, and some good pitching on my part. They acted like we wanted to sit down with a serial killer. They treated him as such too, which I thought was very sad. 

Oh! I got a good one! My first time in Columbus, Ohio was forgettable. I went there to interview Percy Squire— Cliff’s attorney. I brought my small dog with me on shoots all the time around the country. This particular time, my babysitter, who I found on the app ROVER, cancelled on me last minute. So I left my dog in the car in the parking lot right next to the law office where we were filming Mr. Squire. Every 20 minutes I’d go out to check on him. It wasn’t ideal, but the weather was rainy and I left him with his treats and bone and the temp was perfect, so he wasn’t in any bad situation. When I went out to check on him after the last time (interview lasted 2 hours), I found he was gone! I found a note on my car from the police that they took him, but didn’t say where he went. A nearby homeless man told me a passerby woman reported my dog was in the car by himself, so they called the police who pried open my car door, took my dog and gave him to the humane society. Thing was, my dog had a collar on with my phone number on it, and none of those people called me!  Also, the parking lot he was in I paid to be in, and all my info was on the ticket the parking lot workers gave me to put on my dash. So, literally my dog was just stolen. So anyway, after some detective work I found who took him and why, drove to the humane society and broke him out during their after-hours with the help of some workers there. There was more that went into that day that I want to forget, but almost losing my dog still grinds my gears.

 
Cult Critic: Were there any creative decisions related to cinematography, sound or editing that you are particularly proud of in Hobby Hustle?

Michael: There are many I love, but I’d say Karl Kissner and the Black Swamp Find story. I loved how I approached that story because it’s been told so many times, but in short pieces. Karl was gracious enough to give us everything, including his time. For years he vowed to be done with media about his story, but I pitched him well enough for him to open the gates and let us in. He and his cousins even lent us pictures that no one has ever seen about the event. I approached this story with a vintage and nostalgic mindset. I wanted to give gold-colored transitions and a projector slideshow format to pictures with film damage to certain footage and images to set a tone for the viewer to understand the cards he and his family found were of a different time. Like an archeological dig. 

 
Cult Critic: Hobby Hustle was quite a testament your skills and expertise as a filmmaker. We can’t help but be excited for your next project! Is there anything you are currently working on?

Michael: I’m currently working on finishing my novel series. The first book in the series was released a few years ago, so now I’m finishing up the rest of the series and I’m also working on a Role-Playing podcast called DIRE DICE, while still continuing to put out weekly episodes of my baseball podcast with my co-host Steve Ford called LONG GONE. As for film projects, I have a few in the tank I’m developing but nowadays I like to take one creative thing at a time to give it my all before moving on to the next one. 

• Trending tags:
• Filmmaker
• Independent Filmmakers
• Interview
• Indie filmmakers